Should EMS be Allowed to Carry Weapons?

I'd like to hear your opinions on open vs. concealed carry, specifically for firearms. I used to carry a folder in a pouch on my buff belt and a different one when i was off duty in a pocket, but now just carry the same one all the time. What are your opinions on other “weapons” like batons, chemical sprays, electrical devices? Are Tasers (the real ones) an appropriate self defense tool for civilians or EMS, i tend to think they're quite appropriate to the point that i'd be ok with their issue by agencies and open carry. I've been fortunate never to have been injured in a violent incident but have a few close calls and one time that we stumbled on some NYPD cops that needed some help to subdue a pair of perps (mother and son, i shit you not). Probably would have been easier to hop out and tase them. (NYPD has very few Tasers deployed, mainly supervisors and ESU, regular PO's don't have them). Then again if the public knew that EMS was riding around with Tasers we might get a different reception from them. There's also the issue that if the public expects that EMS is armed they might not be as easy to convince not to fight with us…

Hello, sir. I enjoy reading your blog, and often times I find myself on the same side of the fence as you are, but in this instance, I have to respectfully disagree with you. I really feel that arming Ambulance personnel gives the wrong impression to the public and could potentially cause more harm than good.For the last 10 years, I have worked in a largely urban environment that has its fair share of gang activity, and seedy apartment buildings with equally seedy tenants. In those 10 years, I can say that I felt my environment was unsafe enough for me to be screaming into my portable (and over my patient) for the Police Department. Both of those patients were hyped up on PCP and lost control on me. The rest of the time, I’ve been able to disengage myself from a situation, not go into a situation, or talk the situation down to a level where it was manageable either for the duration of the call or until additional help arrived. Quite honestly, it’s a skill that often goes overlooked. People are more apt to take the aggressive route and “drop the hammer” if you will rather than taking some time to either better assess the situation or to approach it with a calm, cool head.I am a big advocate of scene safety, and while I will go into many situations that many people wouldn’t, I always do so with a calm demeanor and my head on a swivel. I’m always aware of my surroundings and I feel that helps keep me out of trouble.Arming Ambulance Personnel goes against a lot of what we stand for. Regardless of what my patient is doing and how they might be treating me, we are ultimately there to help them out. Are we going to discontinue care on a stroke patient, hypoxic patient or critically injured person because they are aggressive towards us? No, we are not. It’s OUR job to take control of the scene, and manage it in a way that keeps both us and our patients safe, and introducing weapons into that environment does not even come close to achieving that.Some of my employees carry a knife, and I discourage even that. In all of my years, I’ve never carried one, and I can’t think of one instance where I’ve said “Damn, I wish I had a knife with me.” Oh yeah, and knowing me, I’d also probably lop a finger or two off. If I need to cut something, I can use a seatbelt cutter or sheers, and if I need to defend myself, that’s not going to be the way I’m going to do it.Ultimately, I think that arming folks is taking the easier, more dangerous way out of a potentially dangerous situation. Instead, why don’t we advocate for more education for our people to better arm them both mentally with “verbal jujitsu” and physically with appropriate restraining techniques?Thanks for everything that you right, Sean. Talk to you soon!Scott

I’m with you when it comes to allowing EMS professionals to be armed. I feel that the second admendment allows all persons to keep and bear arms when necessary, but does not require the ownership or use of weapons. I feel that a responsible EMS provider has every right to be armed for self defense. We enter unsecure areas and deal with unsavory people on a regular basis. Being armed is no replacement for good old common sense and good scene assessment, being armed only provides EMS workers another tool to defend themselves. I do not advocate open carry due to alarming the public, being confused with law enforcement, and weapons retention issues. It is worth mentioning that most hospitals are posted as Gun Free (Criminal Safe) Zones.

I was aproached by a man who had beaten his brother severly and broken a television over the brother’s head. The police were on scene, as well as the ambulance. The man jumped out of the weeds with a stick demanding a ride in my POV (dark, rural, private road) my only defense was to threaten to shoot the man if he came any closer. The kicker is… I was unarmed and unable to even own a handgun at the time due to my age!

I was called to a cardiac arrest in the early morning. My volunteer rescue squad partner (an off duty corrections officer), and I arrived to a dark trailer that had been built onto. We were directed to the rear of the dark home to find a middle aged man dead in the bed. He had rigor mortis and blood pooling on his front side. My partner and I did the obligatory asystole in three leads routine when we then remembered that blood doesn’t pool on top. Further assessment found that the victim had multiple injuries to the back of his head (our flashlights revieled a large puddle of blood in another room later in the morning). The man had been beaten to death and placed in the bed some time later! My partner asked if I had my “friend” with me as we retreated for the door! I was employeed as a route salesman and routinely carried the same pistol with me as I have on me now, seven years later. The suspects were still in the house and wanted to pass this death off as a heart attack.

I've been in some pretty hairy, seedy areas and I've never said to myself “wow, i wish I was armed.” Would you see carrying as being able to use the 'intimidation' factor? Also, do you have any examples of your experiences where you've said to YOURself “wow, I wish I was armed”And thanks for writing your blog, sir

I open carry on my personal time, I do not carry at all when I am on EMS duty for the shear fact that it would “scare” everyone. When I am open carrying on my own time, and people ask why I carry a gun (with the do you really think you need that attitude) I am very calm, courteous and polite, and I say this: I carry a firearm for the same reasons you carry a spare tire.. you might not EVER need it, but it is there IF you do, and you'll sure be glad you did. I have just recently started looking into EMS proffesionals carrying firearms, and I personally think they should carry them open, they have no problem with police officers carrying them, why not EMS? Who better to show the public that you can trust normal sane people with a gun, especially if they are willing to carry it in the open where everyone can see it (criminals are not going to carry a gun where you can see it and most likely because it would be an illegal weapon) Our main goal as EMS is to help people, people in need, and if I choose to arm myself to aid in that, what is it to you? The 2nd amendment clearly states that I have the right to bear arms, and that shouldn't be infringed by my employer, my government, or YOU (I use you in a general term not you specifically) That's my two cents!

OK. There are too many reasons that EMS'ers DO NOT need to carry. One: We are cleared to go in by PD. Second; If we recognize a critical situation, we are grabbing and going. Third; If we do carry and start Pt. care, who's watching our back? The third guy? PD? Fourth; If we start Pt. care and get interrupted and shoot another person, then we are in a wirlwind of patients. Now we are calling addtional resourses for GSW's. Well who shows up then, ambulance? PD? (they should be there already). There aren't enough fires to go around any more, so let the fire and ems dept's concentrate on saving lives. Police are specially trained to handle that crazy stuff, so let them. Need I say more?

This is an interesting dilemma that I have considered often. I hold a license to carry a concealed handgun, and always do so when not on duty. As such, I can certainly see some merit in being able to defend ourselves. However, I think we are made safer by the fact that the ‘bad guys’ know we don’t carry weapons and are not a threat to them. If that dynamic changes, then we will more often become a target of violence, and will no longer be trusted to care for the somewhat seedy patients we are so often call upon to treat. In my mind, I think the best solution is for EMS policies to abandon the issue altogether. Forbiding weapons of protection leaves them liable for injured medics, and explicitly allowing weapons leaves them liable for damages caused. However, if the issue is left out of policies, then the same laws and standards that apply to civilians, will control the medics, and the public trust is not affected.

I am an Emt. In certain neighborhood’s, you have to kill an ems personal to get into a gang. They will run a fake call and try and kill the emt when they arrive.

I like to hear argument from both sides. It comes down to people who have almost died many times wanting the right choice to carry concealed. When someone tries to stop your heart and end your life, there is no way to hide from this. EMT, Police, Fire, and Janitors are all the same. They are just people. That is what it comes down to. No one cares who you are. People are animals, an organism who sheds skin, breaths and makes waste. There is a survival instinct that makes someone go to work to get money so they can eat. Someone else living in a gang land area, needs to survive there by killing an emt to become a gangster.

Why is it up to somone else that I am can be targeted? Is it that i have no right to defend myslef? “That is what the police are for.” Says the 50 year old with a shaky voice who is close to retirement and prays nothing will happen until he leaves. No one in thier right mind should let others have the choice about weather you go home to see your family or not. You always have to be proactive in life and make a stand for your own breath. No one else will. No one else cares that you will die in the animal kingdom. They will be sad, but at the end of the day the sad truth is, you are one less organism to try and take my air, food, land, water, job, partner from other organisms.

As far as carrying guns, I carried a gun and saved many people in Hurricane Ktrina and Iraq. The real ugly truth is, weather people turn their heads and look the other way or not, is that we had to kill terrorist in order to save the inocent. This worked. I also rescued people in Katrina. They were relived to see me carrying a gun and afraid of the police who were mugging the stores they owned arross the street. People are animals. I am sure I would love to trust my life with the police as i wait for them to save me. At the end of the day, they are people too. You make the right choice and vote for concealed. “It’s your ass, not mine.”

The Ohio Bill seems to address primarily  Medics serving on SWAT teams.  That is a completely different situation than normal EMS calls.  As an unarmed tactical medic, I think it’s a great idea.  The PD officers I work with are fully supportive of arming the medics that serve on our swat team.  It’s the administrators who are more worried about liability or cost of sending medics to police acadamey that have issues with armed medics

Anyone in EMS knows the truth to your claim that paramedics end up in the same dangerous situations as police officers do on a regular basis. That said, there are special complications involved with carrying a firearm when on duty as an officer of the state or as a public servant of any sort. When you’re acting in any public role, certain standards are placed upon you: in EMS this is the standard of care — and if you violate it by negligence or failure of duty to act, you can expect some kind of legal action. Police have an equivalent — sets of protocols that they must follow regarding the use of their firearms. This includes extensive firearms training and very strict expectations for when and how it is appropriate to fire their weapon. If they violate those standards for any reason, they can expect legal action against them.

This distinction is important because while a citizen can use lethal force when they believe that their life is in danger, a public servant can only use lethal force when their life IS in danger. They are expected to be able to identify the difference. So if someone on PCP enters your home at night and is extremely violent, and you believe that your life is at risk, as a citizen, you have a right to use lethal force. However, if a police officer responds to a scene where someone is acting similarly, they have a duty to attempt to apprehend the suspect first, otherwise they’ve violated their protocols. This approach to defusing the situation poses a significantly higher risk of bodily harm to the officer, but it is their job to be the ones who risk their life in order to prevent the loss of another’s. Theoretically, they have the training necessary to do so while a civilian does not. This is why civilians are encouraged to back down and allow the police to handle situations.

EMS is not expected to treat very violent, dangerous patients, or to treat a calm patient in an extremely dangerous situation. If you want to carry a weapon, you must also assume the responsibility to place yourself in harm’s way in order to prevent the loss of the violent person’s life or limb.

This puts the whole issue in perspective by allowing one to make two inferences:
1) If you were to carry a weapon as a paramedic, you must be willing to put yourself further in harm’s way by attempting to diffuse an extremely dangerous situation without the use of your firearm (which is counter-intuitive if your purpose for carrying a weapon is to prevent putting yourself blindly in harm’s way), and …
2) EMS personnel would have to receive the same training as police officers to be able to make the “fire or don’t fire” decisions the way that the state expects them to be made.

Give these two necessities for carrying a weapon as a paramedic, it would seem to be a waste of valuable resources to train EMS personnel to handle those rare situations. Let the police do their job, and you do yours. You can’t be on duty as a public servant but act as a private citizen.

I live in Alaska, we don’t always have the police to back the EMT/Paramedics up. almost every one has a gun and there’s a lot of alcohol and drugs up here. sometimes cops don’t show up at all, instead 4 fire engines for 1 chainsaw cut lol. EMT’s are constantly in danger up here, i find it reasonable for EMT’s to be equipped with a weapon, it may take a few hours for a trooper to show up, especially in villages hundreds of miles away from any other city that have an actual police dept. with more than 1 cop.

Well, this is a slippery slope, to be sure.

I find myself agreeing with the principle that EMS workers should be allowed to carry concealed for self-defense as a last resort, but there are numerous issues and variables that would have to be considered before a jurisdiction makes the decision either way. There are plenty of strong arguments against it, but the need to immediately defend one’s life can’t be ignored.

To be sure, it would require extensive training/evaluation and definitely concealed only. It would be far easier to swallow in some jursidictions (e.g. rural, long PD response time) than others.

As a citizen, I wish such a policy could be implemented successfully. But as an admittedly inexperienced EMS worker, I feel there are just so many reasons not to do so. Finally, it only takes ONE screw-up for something this controversial to be banned universally.

Thanks for the post! It’s a great topic.

We live in a litigious society with more laws being added every day.  The right of self-protection should be a given, but fear of a confortation with someone carrying who loses it temporarily, gives pause to restricting the instances of someone carrying.  There is a saying, “Better a hundred guilty go free in lieu of one innocent found guility.”  If we take this as a given in our society, then we accept the consequences of those hundred doing harm again and again.  No different than those who say someone carrying “might” harm an innocent, so individual right to protect self is restricted, slanting toward those who obey no laws.  To protect one’s self, there doesn’t have to be an overwhelming number of situations where the law fails.  To be in jeopardy, only requires one time.

yes i think Emts should be able to carry tasers on a scene what if some engraged patient comes at you and you have your back to there back while your working on another patient. i dont think they should be carrying fire arms but tasers yes becasue its less of a risk of them dieing. and if a  enragedpatient does grab your taser at least its not a gun thats gunna put a bullet through your head instead your gunna get shocked if you dont stop the enraged patient.